Friday, March 04, 2005

Behind a veil

A friend of mine have been pushing hard to hook me up with this girl he knows, telling me how great she is, smart, decent, and so forth.

He also tells me that she's veiled (which he considers a strong asset). Without considering all the rest of her great qualities that he speaks of, I find myself not interested, only because she's veiled!

Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against the Veil. But when it comes to the person that I might be committed with for life, I would not necessarily favor being veiled. To me, having a veiled wife, is kind of like being veiled myself. I'll say why farther down.

I don't want to argue what I think about the veil from an Islamic perspective. I don't really like to announce my views in that matter* (see footnote for reason). I am most certainly not a scholar in Islam, and my knowledge is very limited when it comes to that. Even my logic, which is my only defence here, could very well be flawed. None of the well established Islamic sholars dispute the must-ness of the veil. The only moslems who do, are intellectuals, who do not take Islamic research as a career, and may not be necessarily biased to Islam. So I hate to be grouped with anyone when I make a claim, that I don't find any of the references in the Quran or Sunnah supporting the "fact" that moslem women should cover their hair. The strongest verse I find in the Quran close to that is verse 31 in AlNoor. I would say (not argue), that this verse is not about covering the hair, as it is about covering the chest (bosoms). --and tell to the women believers, ..., to cover their chests with their veil--. It might be that it is already assumed that moslem women are veiled, and the command is actually to cover their chest as well. But if the command was that direct about covering the chest, which is more attractive (i would say) than the hair, it would've been worthwhile to be direct as well in commanding to cover the hair. Why is covering the hair taken for granted, while the covering of the chest requires an explicit verse? If it was traditional for women at that time in the Arab tribes to wear a hair cover, then women are being encouraged to not reveal the more sexual parts of their body in a gentle and easy way; by using the already used head cover to cover their chests. Sounds logical to me, but who am I to say so.

As for the most famous of Hadiths, where the Prophet (PBUH) pointed to his face and hands, saying that these are the only two parts of a woman's body that should be shown. Was he pointing to his face only, or to all of his head?

For some reason the interpretation of the veil issue is never revisited by Islamic scholars, and they never question the establisehd interpretation of it. Unfortunately, I don't find the command that obvious.

Because I am not a scholar, and the other reasons I've stated earlier, I'll have to go along with them and agree that the hair cover is God's command --until a trusted scholar says otherwise (I do like to please God, and I am not apt to claim that I am performing ijtihad, not my job).

So the veil is a must for all moslem women. However, is it really on par with a major pillar of Islam, like the prayers? I find some moslems frequently making that analogy, and I can't relate them whatsoever. Can we really elevate the importance of the veil to the same level as prayers? one of the 5 pillars of Islam, and the backbone of Islam ("Al Salah 3emad AlDin"). Praying is definetely something between man (or woman) and God. However, no one has ever been persecuted for not praying, yet some have been for not covering their hair!

So its importance arises from being a social discipline whereby you get closer to God by following His commands in preventing social/sexual unrest. But can a woman's hair really do that? Its relative I guess. What is the difference between a conservatively dressed woman who has her hair uncovered, and one that is veiled?

The worst part is, many women (in Egypt atleast) are actually more sexually appealling with the veil!! Well, they're doing it wrong ofcourse. Tight pants and shirts, full makeup, uncovered cleavage! What a mess. There are those ofcourse who are conservatively dressed, veiled, and working hard to please God. I respect those ofcourse. And then there are the veil terrorists, prostitutes who wear Hijab.

What I can't swallow are parents who veil their daughters who haven't reached their teens yet attempting to make them get used to it, in order to easily maintain the veil forever. Do you really have to constraint them at that young an age, when its definetely (and beyond a shadow of doubt) not required to be veiled at that young an age?!

When France passed its religious symbols law, I was against it. I think that the veil is a religious symbol, and there might be some logic in France wanting its residents not to be identifiable through their religion. But the argument for the veil is that those who wear it, don't wear it out of symbolism, but out of belief that this is at the core of their religion, just like praying. So France is really limiting the freedom of religion by that law. When our Mufti granted France a green light to pass the law, saying that this is a French internal matter. Like many others, I didn't enjoy his giving in so easily. However, I thought he gave the French moslems a break, and allowed them refuge. And I think that's a good thing. When all else fails, and you can't change the French law, you can fall back on his fatwa, and abide by the law, still being good moslems.

Moslems should really give credit to and consider how North America (U.S. and Canada) are more tolerant in that respect compared to Europe. I believe it would be unthinkable to pass such a law there.

Sometimes the veil has a meaning, and more than just a symbol of being a moslem. I would like to think that its a symbol of a moslem who's trying hard enough, and who's passed a certain threshold of being devout. But with the misuse of the veil (like the examples I give above), that symbolism I'm looking for is not being achieved.

So back to the core issue here. What does it matter if my wife is veiled or not? If she is, she'll be "in the safe side", in case it is really a Godly command and all my logic is wrong. That will save her, as well as myself (being her husband). So its actually worth it. But why would I want her not veiled? Simple really. Not because there is some doubt in mind whether its really a must or not, but because its really very restrictive. To me and to her. Call me silly, but what if we want to do something crazy, enjoy the beach, make a sin, go to a discotheque (although I don't even like dancing!) or something. Its also so monotonic to me, and as a matter of taste I like a face with uncovered hair.

For all the rest of the women who won't be my wives, I am absolutely neutral as to whether you cover your hair or not. Its up to you, and I will not judge you based on that. You could be gorgeously beautiful (and it shows), and you could be geniuses for all I care.

As for the Niqab (face cover), I'm not even gonna talk about it. On this one, most of the scholars say that its absolutely not required, but no harm from wearing it. Come on. If its not required, just ask them, please, please, to take it off. Not because I just want to look at their faces, but because I would appreciate knowing who I'm talking to. Hmm, does this mean that I should put my picture on my blog. Maybe I'm wrong after all. Cover all you want gals.


Oh, tonight I'm going to a religion class at my friend's home, to meet the girl. Ran out of excuses to tell him!


-------
* footnote coming soon.
[I'll push off the footnote for a while, maybe use a separate posting for it.]

35 comments:

praktike said...

A very thoughtful post, Mohamed. Thanks for sharing your perspective.

praktike said...

One point I'm curious about.

Something that Bernard says is that religious scholars almost never make a reference to what the requirements of men are regarding modesty. But aren't men also asked to lower their gaze in the presence of women? Why is this not emphasized? Don't men have responsibilities, too?

Hellme said...

Interesting post Mo.

I referred to a renowned text for the meanings of Arabic words to find out what the word 'khemarehen' means, which is the word used to explain how women should cover their chests. As it turns out, it is a highly contested word, with different scholars offering different interpretations. Some say that any article of clothing is a khemar, while others chose to have it mean cloth that covers from head to toe. As you indicated, very few scholars delve into the question of the very meaning of the verse these days, simply because cultural habit (Islam in the Arab world is influenced heavily by nomadic and bedouin tradition) would have it that women cover up.

Good point on the hadith. There's also the question of whether or not it is reliable in the first place.

However, I disagree with you that N.America is any better than Europe. In America, the discrimination is an undercurrent - they wouldn't ban the hijab, but they sure as hell would treat women like shit for wearing it. A female friend of mine was refused a customer-facing job at Disney (of all places) because she wore a hijab. It was an internship, and they'd accepted her before she met them. Once they say her, they started making up lame ass excuses as to why she wouldn't be able to do it.

Prak - you're right. Men have an obligation to lower their gaze and remain composed. What interests me the most is that the more devout Muslims tend to be the bigger perverts, usually staring, oggling, muttering shit under their breaths and will almost always retell their stories about the 'infidel' woman with friends, so that they may all sleep with boners. That's not to say that non-devout Muslims or men from other religions don't do the same thing: it just strikes me as odd that these men who proclaim devoutness can still be just as sick and baseless as anyone else.

praktike said...

"Prak - you're right. Men have an obligation to lower their gaze and remain composed. What interests me the most is that the more devout Muslims tend to be the bigger perverts, usually staring, oggling, muttering shit under their breaths and will almost always retell their stories about the 'infidel' woman with friends, so that they may all sleep with boners. That's not to say that non-devout Muslims or men from other religions don't do the same thing: it just strikes me as odd that these men who proclaim devoutness can still be just as sick and baseless as anyone else."

Well, there is a longrunning virgin/whore dichotomous approach to women that runs through American and Christian culture as well. It's not as contentious anymore, though, and now confines itself to Madonna videos and the fringes of the Christian right.

Eric said...

I echo the sentiment above: interesting post, and thanks for sharing.

Mohamed said...

Aha, I'm back from the meeting. Won't write about it now though. I'll say this however; seems I'll be in a bit of a dilemma in the coming few days!

Thanks for reading guys.

Praktike, yes ofcourse men have obligations too. You are using the precise words, lowering the gaze "ghudd elbasar" which is actually emphasized. But here's the difference, if you're trying to identify (and label) people by the good or bad they do (and that's a trend here), its easy to identify a woman for wearing (or not) a veil, but its hard to identify a person who lowers his gaze or not, or who prays or not for that matter. If they start to make a law for people to pray for example (God forbid), how will they enforce it. They'll come and ask me, have you prayed today, I can just say yes. Doesn't show. Unlike the veil.

Hellme, the hadith is actually authentic, according to the Science of Hadith, and how they trace hadiths back and check their authenticity, etc.

Yes, unfortunately some of the old Arab traditions have propagated into today's moslem life, and has been mistakenly called Islamic. Asma Barlas talks about that in details in her book, which I disagree with alot of what she claims is in the Moslem society today, but I think she's speaking from a Pakistani perspective (which is even worse regarding traditional non-Islamic cultural influence).

Can you imagine changing cultures and traditions established for thousands of years. It took them hell in the United States to abolish slavery, which lasted for what, less than 200 years. So, Islam actually did one amazing job of changing alot of ill traditions. But unfortunately, moslems deviate again from the essence of Islam, adding their own cultural preferences, and calling that mosaic Islam.

I still believe that North America is much better than Europe with regard to religious tolerance. More so in Canada than in the States however. In the US its getting worse, post-9/11 effect I guess. Which is to some extent understandable. If you don't know anything about Islam, and you've just had 3000 fellow citizens shattered into smithernees in its name, its easy to equate hijab = Moslem = terrorist. And I can't really blame them for not knowing about my religion.

What's really interesting, is that your friend's story at Disney happens regularly in Egypt. Yes, right here. Girls who are veiled are denied jobs because of their veil, and girls who get veiled on the job, are pushed to leave.

haal said...

I might sound ludicrous here, but why don't you take 2 wives. A veiled one, just in case your logic is wrong, that will gurantee you being on the safe side (being her husband, I like this statment)--but safe side from what?; an unveiled one, so you can enjoy the beach, act crazy, and make a sin (I like that sin part too). This way you gurantee the fruits of the two worlds!! I think it is permissable to do that.

Mohamed said...

Easier said than done. Its hard enough to find one person to share your life with, and its hard enough to keep one marriage going. Plus, I'm not really a multitasking person. I want everything in one wife! Is that possible?

The Bees Knees said...

I'm interested in Tariq Ramadan's book "western muslims and the future of islam" - has anyone read it? His goal is to create an independent Western Islam, anchored not in the traditions of Islamic countries but in the cultural reality of the West.

I think it makes sense to revisit the values of Islam and put them into a western context.

Other thoughts?

Hellme said...

Holly;

Why does it make sense to revisit the values of Islam and put them into a western context?

I know what you mean: in essence, the values of Islam are not in question though, it is the way these values are expressed and practiced that needs to be investigated. That's my opinion at least.

Mohamed said...

and I second that Hellme.

The Bees Knees said...

Hellme, yes - you got my thought exactly. I don't mean to say re-write Islamic values.
I just think it makes sense to look at key areas where Islam's universal principles can be "engaged" in the West (education, interreligious dialogue, economic resistance, spirituality) rather than all this frenzied focus on islamic dress and fundamentalism. The plurality (my big word for the day:) of Islam is getting lost and Europe is bogged down in the details. We need to think bigger!

Hellme said...

All I can add to that really is that it seems to be human nature to get held down with details.

Islam - as a social movement, which - at the end of the day is part of its remitt - is undergoing a painful maturity problem, and it's easy for some people to get held up on simpler details, like how Muslims dress, where they live, who they make friends with etc. Reminds me of conversations I used to have with Christian friends who proclaimed that those who refuse to wear crosses weren't Christian.

But yes, you're right - it would be in everyone's interest if there was some introspection in Islamic societies to find out if we have, and if so by how much, deviated from the core meaning of having a religion in the first place.

MG said...

Good Morning folks...
I can relate to your post here Mohammed, because I'm facing a dilemma of my own here, I'm engaged and my fiance wants to wear a veil. Apparently, she went to a couple of religion lessons herself (while I was away in England) and the thought of wearing veil is knocking on her brain. I'm not a veil fan too for many reasons that I won't go through because of space, but I don't mind people wearing veils or not, it's their choice and I'm pro-choice in everything (well not everything). When she brought the subject to my attention and she asked for my opinion... I was sweating like hell and I gave her a bullshit talk about does she feel that she's spiritually ready for such a big decision and crap like that!! I had to end my argument by telling her that I don't like but it's between her and God and she's free to do whatever she feels right.
The thing is I never imagined myself with a veiled woman not to mention marrying one and even my family couldn't imagine me with a veiled woman when I told them the story.
If she decided to go on with her "veiling" project, I won't be able to stop her and maybe I will show her some unconvinced support (right thing to do right?) because I respect her decisons and mostly because I love her... so it would be a trivial thing to break up the engagement for.
What really worries me is what follows the veil... you know what I mean... she already started showing discomfort about some of my lifestyle habits! And if this discomfort turns into a rigid thing this when I will take a firm stand and unleash my dark side lol.

Mohamed said...

Sounds like you two could be starting to diverge. If I were you, I wouldn't know what to do either.

Note: Haal questions the "being on the safe side" line of thought at her blog!

BP said...

Guys..I just have a feeling deep down inside me. Leaving besides the views of scholars or whether the veil is a fard or not, I just cannot understand how people are talking about invading Mars while we're in this part of the world are concerned about whether a woman should cover her hair or not. I think it is a pity. I am a firm believer in Allah and in his holy word but I have difficulty accepting the fact that our society is so caught up in this issue while others in Europe and South Korea and thinking about how to build better cars or how to heal cancer. I am totally against communism and its atheistic values but I believe Marx was right when he refered to religion as the opium of the people...do you guys share this feeling?

Anonymous said...

GM -

I personally don't agree with you.

1. Our society, and hence, our culture and religious beliefs need to be challenged, and sorted out because assuming like they're not important won't make it better and it won't make the problem go away.

2. Civil society is never single-sighted. For us to discuss and debate the issue of hijab does not mean we are incapable of discussing anything else. Europe is still debating issues like gay bishops, and they haven't had to 'stop' to do it - they still continue to develop in other fields.

3. What's wrong with opium? You show me a society that has no opium. The opiums are plenty: gratitious sex, social deprevation, crime, money worship, celebrity worship, self indulgence, pill pushing, self victimisation, blind patriotism, inferiority complexes.

4. The sooner we a) agree to disagree on issues like the hijab or b) reach some form of agreement, the better. The hijab is, as you say, might be the least of your problems, but it's causing all forms of grief for women. When half of your 'workforce' isn't properly empowered because there are social stigmas for/against the way women dress, you have a mighty serious problem that needs addressing, pronto.

While I agree with you on your opinion that it is at the bottom of our heap of problems, I don't think disregarding it, setting it aside, or undermining the value of it as a topic of debate will help the overall case.

Hellme said...

That was my by the way...

Mohamed said...

Hellme beat me to the logical reply :)

You know GM, hijab is actually one of the few issues that are not debated between Muslim scholars and "devout" Muslims. They already have a "final" say on this one.

So, if you mean me, by talking about this "silly" topic instead of figuring out my way to Mars. Hey man, that's the whole point of my little silly blog.

BP said...

Mohamed and Hellme,

I didn't mean your post, I was talking in general. We as a society discuss stuff that so consumes us. I don't agree with you Hellme. You won't find many europeans discussing gay bishops. They'll read it in a news and probably form an opinion about it but they are not consumed by it. Here we are consumed about silly debates such as Hijab vs Niqab, shaving pubic hair or not shaving, using razor or not using, and the list goes on and on. I am upset by all this because I personally do not think that Allah is so concerned about whether a woman would cover her head or not. May be I am wrong, may be I am bound to hell, but that is how I am thinking.

Hellme said...

GM - yes, you're right. The average European is not consumed with gay bishops. The average European/American is consumed with celebrity worship, planning the next golf game and watching reality programming until the chickens come home. I don't know what kind of Europeans you mix with (on a physical, not digital level), but the ones I mix with are total airheads. That's why I don't mix well. Ofcourse a few are intellectually stimulating - the vast majority aren't.

As for European/Western bloggers, well, they are obviously not consumed with gay bishops because they don't feel it affects them personally. In addition, you can't really say that it doesn't consume them because you haven't read every single blog out there (I've come across a lot that delve into the gay bishop issue in detail).

Now, I'm not sure what kind of Egyptians you mix with, but I've never mixed with people who spend ample time discussing pubic hair. If I ever was to be involved with people like that, I'd stop talking to them :)

Honestly, Mo discussed this because it touched him personally. It might not qualify as important to you, but I can understand his arguments because at one point I had to argue the same points.

But all in all, you are right - there are other issues that need discussing, and we should all be glad that there is now a few of us covering multitudes of topics.

TY said...

I think the debate on the headscarf (veil/hijab) is extremely important for our sanity. It is important for those who find religion important one way or the other and many Arabs, or at least Egyptians, have strong views about religon regardless of whether or not they actually practise religion. I found Mohamed's posts on this issue very interesting and enlighting. Not sure I agree with every single thing, but its such a relief to read/discuss the headscarf in a relaxed way.
As a practising Muslim woman myself, I often thought of the hijab but couldn't really relate to it, so I couldn't wear it. I don't know if it is VERY important to God and the Prophet (PBUH)but I know society here deems it terribly important to a sickening degree. I respect those who wear it for religious beliefs. And although no one in my family has pressured or even asked me to wear it, I feel pressured by this society of covered heads and tight clothes. This will continue to bug me every now and then as long as I remain a practising Muslim and as long as headcarves remain the "norm."
Mohamed: you never blogged further about that 'situation'. I was wondering if you might have felt it was wrong to prejudge someone because they're veiled and if you felt guilty about it? Not saying you should, just wondering really..

Mohamed said...

I agree with you TY, and I feel what you're saying about thinking of hijab, but not being able to wear it. I think quite a number of women are like that, and the social pressure is increasing, isn't it.

It does feel very good to be able to write about this (and other topics), in such a relaxed manner. Another great thing about this blogging thing.

Yes TY, I never blogged further about the situation. The girl was "good" and nice as my friend claimed. I never said that I wouldn't have expected her to be so. And I didn't prejudge her, didn't think neither good or bad of her because of the veil. Just wasn't necessarily comfortable with it, not her.

Twosret said...

Hey guys,
There is something angelic about veil. I'm a Christian and I only knew that when I tried on my wedding dress and chose a big veil that covered most of my hair.

I saw few women in my life in church covering their hair (old widows that looks very coptic almost pharos lol) I only learned in an Orthodox Church in Florida that it is actually written in the bible that women should cover their hair in chruch.

I think veil is an attitude more than a dress code. My very best muslim friend who is veiled behave like a veiled woman, she doesn't just wear it. She is not extreme by any means, she is soft spoken, cute, moderate,brings joy to the place she steps in and very smart.

Ordinary women with no veil can be wonderful also but the choice is really yours Mohamed. I hope that the stereotype of veiled women as being old fashion won't affect your decision to meet this girl.

I have so much respect for girls who are veiled and behave veiled. I hope you won't be missing a good opportunity to meet a good woman or may be a good mother for your children. Good Luck!

Magdee, I bet you one of you are gonna win she will either remove your tattoo or you will tell convince her not to wear the veil :) I just love to mess with you.

T.

Mohamed said...

Yes Twosret, I've applauded those veiled girls who act veiled. And I don't think I'm stereotyping veiled women as old fashioned at all. On the contrary, most of them aren't. This is becoming more fashionable these days. I've given different examples of veiled women, so certainly no stereotype.

I'm actually sure that I am missing many opportunities for meeting great girls. But you know men, we have a strange taste.

Twosret said...

Mo,

Sorry if I wasn't clear in my post I didn't mean that you are contributing into any stereotype.

I haven't lived in Egypt for a while and didn't know that it is fashionable these days to be veiled.

I only see Haifa Wahby on LBC LOL via dishnetwork! strange taste oh Yeah tell me about it :) it is like catch 22 with you guys :)

T.

MG said...

Twosret,

I have nothing against veiled women, in fact, I'm in support of women's choice to wear veil or not.

Regarding my fiance situation, I just wanted her to be sure that she believes in what she's doing... not just following a trend or listening to others. And as I said she decides to go on and wear it, it won't change a thing to me but I won't be ecstatic though.

But when I said, I didn't imagine myself with a veiled woman... I didn't mean to be rude or judgemental or anything, just as Mo said men have different or (strange) tastes and so are the women. I also met the cutest of girls who are veiled and they are certainly not "old fashioned". Anyway, if my fiance was veiled when I first met her, still I would've fallen in love with her, you know... I'm not that superficial lol

P.S: when we got engaged I was tattooed but she's wasn't veiled, so I have a head start ;)

Anonymous said...

Mohamad,

I have couple of comments on this post, but would only share one right now. Talking about your wife-to-be and how you want to enjoy with her the beach, going to the discotheque, and "make a sin".....

Didnt you just mention somewhere else that the purpose of our lives is to please God, and do whatever He commands us to do? How come you're openly thinking of sharing a sin with your wife?

Okay, enough about that. It's totally your call, but I guess a "wife" is much more than that. A wife is a mother for your kids. She's a support for you in this life, and maybe she'd be a reason/factor of your happiness in the hereafter.

Pardon me for my nosiness. I just felt the urge to drop a comment.

Mohamed said...

Anonymous, I appreciate your comment. You're not nosy at all. You can't be nosy if I'm the one availing this stuff for you to read.

You're very right, I shouldn't publicly announce my sins or wanting to do them. I am mistaken.

I was actually exaggerating abit, I'm not really looking forward to do sins with my wife. What I meant I guess is, I want to be able to be playful and enjoy life with her (I guess many can argue that the veil doesn't prevent that, well, we look at it abit different then).

I don't recall saying that the purpose of our lives is to please God. Did I?!

A wife is definetely much more than that, definetely. Those were just the points related to the topic.

Please do share the rest of your comments if you still want to.

Me, Myself and I said...

well, this is more of a rush of thoughts than a concrete response to a specific feedback...I agree with GM however that in Egypt, and am sure in other arab countries, we are over consumed with the "not too corish" issues of islam....we focus on the Ebaadaat (even though veil is not one) and totally ingore Al Mo'amalat...and many if not most are now experts on what is haram and what is halal...from eyebrows plucking to nailpolish, to hijab, (have not heard that pubic hair one though)to emailing ahadith which is some 11 pages long..etc. Relegion now premeates all social discussions/gatherings..it is shocking to me...Growing up-did i grow up around secular parents??, never heard such issues discussed at home, family gatherings or other social occassions. On hijab...hmmm...while i consider myself a "good muslim"--I follow the ten commandments sans one or two i suppose...it never actually crossed my mind to wear it. Have been charged that i only expose myself to those views that say it is not a fard....Dunno. Maybe i do that..I read a number of books by Gamal El Banna an enlightened "islamic resarcher" (brother of Hassan el Banna the founder of the MBs). Unfortunately his views are not widely circulated, i think he is not even a allowed on TV (he is not a MB but his views on the government qualifies him to be banned), and he is associated with Ibn Khaldun Center of Saad El Deen which i am sure makes him a target for character assisination..and takes away from his credibility.. Very very very few Egyptians do i see now who still keep their relegion (muslim and christias) in the private domain...(i work in a place which has a mix of 50% christians and 50% muslim and i am seeing it at both ends)..What is most disturbing that while i chose to put my son in an internattional school (to the dismay of Baheyya-but i simply did not want him exposed to the gov curricula) and with his very poor arabic (my problem in life) i still find him picking up such issues from his relegion teacher at school. Tucking him one nite, he asked me if cosemetic surgery is haram...his teacher told him that..i said go tell ur teacher, Mummy says that while she is not a scholar in islam, yet there are much more important issues to deal with at the moment-crisis in fact in our society..that we need to address..once settled we can move on to nose jobs. And of course I asked him to deliver whatever in loving kindness..and respect.

Anonymous said...

I am very new, it is my first time to read this post, but I really truly agree with what Me, Myself and I said, we are so busy discussing the side issues of Islam and we are totally ignoring (as a country I mean) the core of our religion teachings, honesty, cleanliness, caring for our neighbours and thousands of other things that if applied would make our society very different.... to start with being polite while driving and keeping our streets clean, THAT would really make a much bigger impact than wearing the veil or not

roora said...

hi i just read the link at haal's blong , and i wont go in argument of whether this is fard or not , because you said your self that there is a verse and a hadith , by whom the scholars interpreted , and the general opinion that veil is Fard , and we are not scholored enough and no approved scientefic scholar stated that it is not a fard , although i am sure that many of these arguments were raised .

just one point i want to mention that you guys really make it hard on girls to take this step , i know many who want to take this step, but just because of the sovial community surrounds them do not encourage them for that. i cant believe it when i see a woman in her middle fourties and she is telling me that she wants to get in veil but her husband will feel that she is not as beautiful as before, what is the point here, she is not gona wear veil in home , so what is the point or is it just a social image , that by this way we look better . so for any if you dont want to encourage who ever in wearing veil , dont at least discourage them

roora said...

and as for anomonys and me myself, yes there are thousands of teachings, in islam which are important and we should focus on what is important , like for example there is a hadith that states by what it means that there are levels in islam and the least level is ...., sorry i dont have the translation now , so yes there are things more important than others. but as veil is fard , so we cant say that it is not important or let us concentrate on other issues becasue simply the fard you will take a si if you didbt do it. just as simple as that

omneya said...

hi mohamed
i realy admire your open mindness and your honesty.I am veiled and i'm trying to do as right and still as appealing as possible and it seriously ain't easy at all.I was a ballerina and on the verge of starting a professional career on the opera house before i decided to give it all up and wear the veil and i did it by forcing myself to it!!It was so hard and after 2 years now it is still not easy but let me tell you why do i still do it.

First of all i realized that No pain no gain.this is the way it works here on earth with everything like studying,working,even in realtionships .you can't have something without earning it.so if that's the way it is with things that we die and leave behind then ain't eternal uindesribably beautiful heaven worth some pain that we will leave behind!!it makes sense..
HOw do we expect to desrve what the prophets and thier companions an true followers will earn and we ain't working as hard as they did and being delbratly disobedient to god just coz we can't change our lifestyle.There must be some pain and some evident proof to god of our intentions.

Second I know that Gid is fair,and he said(wa basher elsaberin)it's that the patient ones will be rewarded,so it's a promise from god then it's worth complying with.

Last but realy not least,i couldn't stand the idea of taking god for granted.Talking his orders lightly and still expecting him to be good to me on earth and merciful on judgement day,it's just rude.We don't like when other humanbeings like us take us for granted then do u think god would like it!!!

I hope i didn't bore,it's just i know how exactly do u feel about this.But u know what,i will still get myself a harly davidson as soon as i can afford one and ride it on the highway(as i always wanned)
salamo 3alikom

Anonymous said...

When I first converted to Islam
this is the one thing they said
is what I should do know as a
muslim. HOW SILLY!!!!!!!! They
also suggested I change my name!
CHYEAH! (in my best Wayne's world
voice) Like I would ever dis my
mom like that. Did it ever occur
to them that we could be respectful
to ourselves with hair? That maybe
men should have a standard of
morals to live by and treat us
with respect. ( I mean c'mon not
wearing booty shorts of cours)
Most converts go all out and cover,
I've met my fair share of niqabis.
We need to attract others to Islam
not repel those against it. And
I for sure don't think it's more
pious to wear hijab. Who's to say
that's the right thing to do
anyhow. I've met some pretty shady
characters who were "covered".
I hate to say it again....LOSERS!!!